INTERVIEW WITH
MICEAL LEDWITH L. Ph., L.D., D.D., LL.D
By Louise SaintOnge of MastersConnection, LLC
Transcribed by Bertha Rainen

This is Part 2 of a 4 Part Series
(Click Here for Part 1)

MC: Can you give a brief summary of what Jesus did and where he went?

MICEAL: Yes, there are two major gaps in his life. One concerns the time when he went into Egypt, and, as I said, we don’t know from the New Testament how long he spent there. The tradition is two years. Actually he spent eight. So by the time they came back from Egypt, - Jesus and Thomas and Joseph and Mary, - probably Jesus and Thomas were ten or eleven years of age by that time. Now I mention in the DVD a parallel with the Notovitch scrolls and the other scrolls, another source in India which testifies to the existence of scrolls in India today, not in Kashmere and Tibet, but in the temple of Jaggenath just southwest of Calcutta.

This man who had been the head of that monastery came here to the United States in 1951 and he said, “Oh, yes, we have scrolls in our monastery here in the northeast of India that also tell about Jesus being in India and what he did.” He said, “I consulted them myself in our own library at the monastery of Puri.”

So there are other scrolls in existence as well. But in the new DVD I wasn’t using just the Notovitch scrolls or any other scrolls which treat the life of Jesus from the age of fourteen to twenty-six in India and Tibet, and its important to bear that in mind. There is a lot more evidence which would cause us to probe and ask questions even if no scrolls had ever been found.

If you look at the ministry of Jesus in the Holy Land from the age of thirty to thirty-three, or slightly less than three years, you would notice that every element that he preaches, Baptism, the Eucharist, and every sacrament come from another source. Also, all of the ministry of Jesus was planned to the last degree. The Gospel of Judas recently discovered, which I discuss in the DVD in this sense only, testifies to the fact that Jesus knew what was going to happen and it was all deliberate and foreseen.

But all of the symbols and rites that Jesus used in his mission have reminiscences of Egypt, so it appears very certain that the Holy Family and/or Jesus himself were there, even if the New Testament had never told us so. There were seven temples along the Nile in the days of Jesus which dealt with the issues of what we in Ramtha's school would call the issues of the Seven Seals, known in the New Age tradition a the seven chakras. And, of course, you
know I was all my life as a theologian always searching for a better understanding of all this stuff, and I had given up hope, really, of finding answers to fit all the jigsaw together until I came across the teachings of Ramtha®.

MC: From all your reading and studies over the years and your various positions?

MICEAL: Yes, I had read most of what was readily available, and a lot not so readily available,
throughout the Eastern and Western sources. And then when I heard Ramtha's® teaching, of course it all began to make sense and fall into place. I had been at this full time for over thirty years and everything I had already learned, which was enormous, was put in a different context and it guided my research from then on into different areas and made perfect sense of everything. So Jesus had learned this material in Egypt in his early years and we are told from other sources that his mother and father were students at the Great Temple of Heliopolis and he was there himself with Thomas.

MC: Was that the seventh temple?

MICEAL: That is the Temple of the Seventh Seal, yes. So they certainly were there. The message of Jesus which we have from his three year ministry in the Holy Land, is based on a combination of what he learned in Egypt and what he learned in India and Tibet. His purpose, as I say again, was to blaze a trail for you and me to follow. To do that, he had to accomplish his mastery in the most dramatic and striking way possible.

MC: And was he the first person to do this?

MICEAL I went to Heliopolis almost ten years ago. It is very hard to gain access to the
archeological site. It took me six hours of negotiation at the gate to get in there. And the only part
of that vast complex, which had 25,000 priests in the days of Rameses II, is probably an acre that
had been excavated in the 1960s and then they abandoned the excavation. It is totally off limits to
everyone.

MC: And it is not fully excavated?

MICEAL: Just a tiny area, about an acre, and it is the area of the Holy of Holies which was the Temple of the Seventh Seal. I eventually got in there. There are two carved stone doorways and then you turn at right angles, which in sacred geometry is a dimensional shift, and you go into this little area of the Holy of Holies which is less than the size of this room. There was a pedestal in that room reserved for the person who would first prove their belief that you could raise your own body from the dead, which was prefigured at the great pyramid at Giza because you were put in the tomb there as a symbolic death. You didn’t know for how long. It was actually three days, three nights. Why? Because that is the period under these intense, stressful situations needed to change the neuronets in the DNA, which are basically all rooted in fear and all fears are ultimately rooted in the fear of death. So if you can conquer the fear of death in the sarcophagus at Giza -- it wasn’t always done in the sarcophagus at Giza, but in another sarcophagus -- then you were ready for the Great Work in earnest. And the Great Work in earnest was in the seventh temple at Heliopolis where they enacted a real version of what was symbolically done at Giza. So Jesus went into the Holy Land to preach a message of liberation.

MC: I would like you then to show, if you can, a parallel to Ramtha's® teachings when we talk about the fear of death and how he is doing this with us, compared to the temples along the Nile for all the
different seals, and the fact that we are in a modern times right now. In your DVD, you talk about the
secret teachings of Jesus and it is referred, I think, in the Secret Gospel of Mark and in the Nag Hammadi Gospel of Thomas, that the secret teachings were reserved for those who had proven themselves.
So if you could comment on that and then take what Ramtha® is doing, which is available to the
masses and perhaps compare, contrast, a little bit.

MICEAL: Well, yes. It is, I think, accepted by most scholars now, that there were two levels to Jesus’
teaching. One was the one he gave to the masses and the other was the one he gave in secret to those who had made some progress in what he taught. Now, the Gospel of Thomas, which is from the
Nag Hammadi find of 1945, of course, is a sublime example of the secret teachings. It calls itself that --
“These are the secret teachings of Jesus which Jude Thomas the Twin wrote down” etc.

The Secret Gospel of Mark was referred to in a document discovered by Professor Morton Smith in the
monastery of Mar Saba in the Judean desert in 1958. It was copied into the back of a 17th or 18th Century book, and purported to be a letter of Clement of Alexandria from the 2nd Century that referred to a secret gospel of Mark. Alexandria in North Africa was where Mark came to after Peter had been killed, etc. Mark was the secretary of Peter. So, obviously, his gospel would have been the tradition of Peter since Mark did not know Jesus personally. If Mark had a secret gospel apparently it was quite a different document from the public Mark and, likewise, quite different from what we have in the New Testament. In short, the New Testament is by and large the public teaching of Jesus which now contains all the stories, etc., and tells us how wonderful a person Jesus was, but it really doesn’t tell us the nitty-gritty of the matter, which is how do you become like him? That is what the secret gospels were about. How do you become the genie?

As Ramtha® would put it, rather than have a couple of wishes from the genie, why don’t you become the genie yourself? Why don’t you become what Jesus was? That is what Jesus himself intended.

Now there were other masters even at that same time who were doing the same thing, like Apollonius of Tyana, a prime example, an exact contemporary of Jesus who became a Christ but by a very different route. No public preachings, very private. But Jesus did that because the group of masters that were behind his mission wanted him to blaze a trail to change the collapsing consciousness of humanity to something more appropriate and hopeful. Of course, the message was hijacked right from day one, and the hijacking continues apace still today.

The reason why I talk so much about Jesus is not because I am living in the past or because it is nice to
know about all those wonderful people who lived then, but because today we have exactly the same issues to deal with. We will do the same with Ramtha's® stuff in our lives as our ancestors did with Jesus’ stuff if we are not careful. That would be as great a danger even if there were never a religion on the face of the Earth today. In other words, when I stand up and talk “about religion,” I often say,
“Do you think I am talking about religion? If so, you are a fool, because even if there was no religion in the world today, these issues would be just as important for you and me because these are issues that are in the heart and soul of every one of us. I am talking about those things in us that allowed religion to arise in the first place, and can always do so again. This is the way we think about God and deal with God and deal with our own evolution. It is always in these terms. The teachings of Jesus were brought down and warped, usually by people who were convinced they were doing right, and as a result they are irrecoverable now. We need to learn from that mistake.

MC: So what you refer to in bringing the teachings down is due to the fact that that is how we are made up. That is what our psyche is all about. It hasn’t evolved enough to be able to keep them pure, that we are still so bogged down in these concepts that you brought up in your first DVD,
The Hamburger Universe.

MICEAL: Yes. Those concepts that I dealt with in The Hamburger Universe DVD, the first DVD, they are absolutely crucial. That disk was very simple. We had no graphics, nothing, but the knowledge that’s in that disc is absolutely vital for anyone who is interested in waking up, important for us all.

But the reason why we have those mindsets and character traits that tend to do that with divine reality and drag it down is because of our background historically with the Anunaki. All the issues that cripple you and me spiritually today, as opposed to religiously, you can trace back to where we started from with the Anunaki, the abandonment, the inferiority, the realization that we are subject to sickness and to death, etc. You can trace it all right back there and that has just been escalating, escalating, escalating ever since.
It is the very heart of the spiritual problem.

Now, one of the major, major, things that religion has absolutely drained out of our systems, (like an undertaker or funeral director drains our fluids out when we are dead), is the secret to do with the divine realities that impinge on our lives and persons. I mean it is the heart of the teachings of my own teacher Ramtha's® and in other teachings, as well as being in every significant teaching that ever was. That is, whatever you wish to be magnetized to you, you have to first become it. Jesus said it in his own statement in St. Mark when he said, “When you pray for something, believe it is already yours and it will be so.” And whatever we believe will be so.

Now when we pray we say, “Oh, God, I am a wretched, miserable sinner. Lord have mercy on me, give me something.” What are we manifesting? Endless lack, endless deprivation, endless worthlessness.

If I am in lack and in misery and in doubt, I am tuned to a certain frequency. The only radio programs and television programs that I will get are lack, misery and deprivation. Whereas, if I am tuned to joy -- if I say, for instance, as I do in the start of my everyday that“I am filled with the glory, the power, the joy, the freedom and the sovereignty of the living God within me” and I absolutely hold to that, I know that nothing in that day, if I hold it, can come to me that is sick, unworthy or miserable. Religion has
crippled that ability in us because it has killed the very source of our greatness. We have said oh, no, bow down, demean yourself before God, demean yourself before Jesus and you will be rewarded.
It is not so.

And it is down and down and down and down.

MC: But your DVD is also hopeful. You know today that the pews are emptying. Can you comment on that a little more, that the pews are emptying?

MICEAL: Well, I know there are an enormous number of wonderful people in religion. I have known them personally. I would be a liar if I were to deny that. I have known incredible people in the Church who were absolutely sincere. I knew, for instance, take one sterling example, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, very, very well. These are great people, and these are sincere people, but they don’t have the information.

So, you know, you can react in one way or another. I can react to religion on the basis of the people that I knew, that I grew up with as a child. They were wonderful, wonderful people. Or I can react on the basis of what this religious system is doing to humanity because it is not just a harmless eccentricity. It is actually attacking at the very core, the potential of human evolution. It is disempowering every one of it members on a daily basis and has done so for centuries. It claims to give us a security, but it is a security that is illusory and without any basis, but it is usually too late before we discover that we have been living in a fool’s paradise and that we neglected to look where the real security comes from – the
Kingdom of Heaven within us.

So that is where my problem is with religion, not with the people involved, who by and large, with some exceptions, are well-meaning and sincere, but who are all crippled by this fear and guilt trip that the
Yom Kippur party has imposed on the mission and teaching of Jesus which was never a part of it.

MC: Are we waking up?

MICEAL: We are.

MC: Are the people waking up?

MICEAL: We are. We are. People are walking with, they are voting with their feet as they say.
They know. I actually took up that little insert card form my new DVD this morning and there is a paragraph here which I think sums it up the answer to your question.

“My research has confirmed my earlier suspicions that the lack of appeal which organized religion has had for so many people was rooted in a far more serious and complex issue, an actual distaste for organized religion as opposed to a distaste for spirituality. I was surprised to find that so many people found God attractive but the churches that regarded themselves as God’s instruments, they found to be largely irrelevant. This is because they sense that organized religions had more interest in safe and predictable rituals combined with hard and fast teachings rather than in promoting the discovery of God by the individual. I found that most people who had drifted away from religion did not seem to be holding anything serious against religion. They simply believed that religion had nothing worthwhile to say to them anymore. In short, I saw that religion was coming to enjoy the sinister peace of those whom the world had found to be irrelevant.”

Now that is an answer to what you are saying...

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