INTERVIEW WITH - PART 4
MICEAL LEDWITH, L.Ph.,L.D.,D.D., LL.D
About His New Book, New DVD and
What He Is Up To These Days...
December 7, 2007 by Louise SaintOnge for MastersConnection, LLC,
©2008 MastersConnection, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

MICEAL: If we think we have got it all together, you know, if I am getting into middle age and I have been around a bit, I think I’ve got my whole reality together. I know if I do this or that, certain things happen. When a phenomenon like orbs appears, it blows us out of the water, (it’s always a mistake to be in the water in the first place). We should always be open to what is coming and not assume we know the truth of it. This is an adventure, not an arrival.
     An image I am using lately about human beings is the iceberg. It’s in my new DVD. The human being is like an iceberg. There’s a small part visible above the waves on top – about one seventh of the whole. And the rest is underneath. It is invisible. And that’s the greater part.
We are like that except we are turned the other way around. The important part in the eyes of the world is this visible part known as the physical. What job do I have, how much do I earn, how do people respect me, how many clubs do I belong to, how much golf do I play. This is absurd because we have lulled our deeper self to sleep. We have gotten into what I call a trance state.....

MC: Not the right trance state.

MICEAL: I think I call it a “trance of scarcity,” that is a conviction that there is not enough to go around and either I get it before he gets it or I won’t have anything. So there is all this competition, all this struggle, all this envy, jealousy, anger, insecurity, which comes from powerlessness. This is why I have often said that what the world needs today - with all due respect to The Beatles, is not love. “Love is all you need.” Jesus is quoted endlessly as saying we should love one another, and he was right, but he said much, more than what we understand by that which is just a mawkish sentimental version of love which has nothing to do with “love” as Jesus preached it.
     My book on Jesus, which I am working on right now, will deal with many things like that, because all of these central things of which Jesus spoke, such as love, forgiveness, etc., were not meant to be recommendations that would make us into nice people or be well regarded; they are all tools of the quantum field.
     They are not pious affirmations about this, that or the other thing that Jesus uttered. They were uttered from a completely different point of view. What we need is not love. What we need is power because we are a powerless race, and all of the attitudes that have brought this planet to its knees come about because of a sense of powerlessness – hate, anger, jealously, insecurity, competition. We are buffeted around by agencies and people and organizations and forces that we perceive are much, much, more powerful than we are. We are helpless. What we need now is to look at how we are going to get out of this situation. The orbs give us a great clue.
     Unfortunately most people don’t want to have power. I said on my Hamburger Universe DVD that the most frightening thing to you and me and everyone on this planet is to realize how much power we actually do have. Of course it is very easy to understand why that’s the case, because if I have power, then obviously I can’t blame anyone anymore. And that’s the sweetest most delicious pleasure in the world - to point the finger and say if it wasn’t for her or him or the government or the system or whatever, look how wonderful I would be.
     No, we can’t do that anymore if we have power. So most people don’t want to step out to where they have power. They want to be taken care of by the Great Parent in the skies who replaces the parents they had, if they were lucky enough to have good parents, when they were children. So this is the fundamental block to our enlightenment - that most people don’t want the responsibility.

MC: Responsibility is key. The other thing I was just thinking about as you said that is the fact that if we have power that means we may isolate others, because others won’t know what to do with us, and then we will be left alone, or we won’t have that connection with others, and that is a huge thing.

MICEAL: When I was teaching at RSE for those nine years, I often referred to that book The Horse Whisperer where the trainer understood that the greatest threat for a horse is to be isolated from the herd. His punishment was not to be beaten or shouted at, but to be separated from the other three or four horses that were in the group. The horse would do anything to get back with the group. Now that is endemic in most species, but it is nowhere as prevalent as in the human race, because the punishment that we fear most of all, more than anything else, is being ostracized. If we are put apart from the herd it is the one thing we really cannot bear so we will do almost anything in order to belong.

MC: And you sell your soul for that.

MICEAL: And you sell your soul. And you may even sell your soul in enlightenment.

MC: Explain that.

MICEAL: I mean this is possible to happen in any sphere. If you give your power away it doesn’t matter to whom you have given it, it is still given away.

MC: You mean to a guru or something like that?

MICEAL: Yes, yes, or indeed to anyone. I used to say when I was teaching at RSE, what is the worst form of giving your power away which will totally frustrate your evolution spiritually? What is the worst fault in this area? It is giving your power away to God. Now you might think that that is sacrilege. But even if you have given your power away to God you have still given your power away.
     For example, we obviously should do our disciplines every day. If we haven’t time for our disciplines then we should let something else go. In other words, the disciplines should take priority in our life. But if we do them out of some sense of obligation, you know, oh, my goodness, I didn’t do my disciplines today and the next time I go to an event, Ramtha is going to say, “You are not doing your disciplines, Master.” You know, if that is the mentality in which we are doing our disciplines we have largely lost the benefit of doing them. We must do them because of what they accomplish in us by way of change, not as commanded rituals. That is precisely where in ancient times the religious traditions that came from the Great Work lost their way.
     What we are doing, to go back to the iceberg metaphor, is we are trying to draw the enormous abilities that we already have, out of the depths and up to the surface. If we turn that over so that we have a triad upside down, we are trying to bring the powers and abilities from Point Zero down to the sixth, fifth, fourth, third and second plane into the physical, to use Ramtha’s terminology. That is what we are here to do, and we can achieve enormous things from this. When we look at somebody reading the cards for example, they are seeing the infrared body of the card. That’s the second plane. We are only at the very beginning. As marvelous as those things are, it is at the beginning of drawing in not just the second plane which is infrared, but the light and the ultraviolet, and so on, down into this plane. That is how Jesus walked on water, healed the sick and raised the dead.      There is no mystery to it. It’s a higher form of physics but one which must be accessed from a higher level of reality. The ability to access parallel layers of time was intended to be one of the very basic tools for the human race, and we totally lost it. Look what effort it takes to regain it in even a rudimentary form. The accessing of parallel time is the key to accessing the abilities of the other planes, which is why I think the torsion vortex pictures I have in the book and DVD are such crucial images.

MC: It is a mystery in the sense of people not understanding the value of commitment to a discipline. When you talk about someone seeing the cards, that this is just the beginning - how long it has taken us to get to just the beginning!

MICEAL: Yes. Because we come out of an instant gratification society where everyone expects to be able to push a button or take a pill or a powder or drink something or buy a machine, and it will do it for us.
     The other day in Portland after the breakfast television interview, I was saying to the people in the studio that television is one of the major factors that’s ruined our ability to manifest the miraculous. Why? Because it has destroyed our focus. You cannot leave an image on the TV screen for more than - whatever it is - five or seven seconds. It has got to change that often or people will become bored. So our whole culture now is absolutely destroying our ability to focus for the length of time it takes to access the extraordinary. What is the average length of time that most people can focus?

MC: Yes, what is it?

MICEAL: Three or four seconds. This is the point. I was so pleased to see the wonderful accomplishments of our fellow students Kenny and Debbie, and they were able to tell us how long it took them to see the cards. Now there is a danger here obviously, because if I feel it is going to take me two or three or five years, since I am the lawgiver in my life, it will assuredly take me that length of time. However, let’s say it took Debbie and Kenny two years of two hours, maybe more a day, to accomplish this discipline. This is harsh reality. We think “I can heal myself”. We have been taught this. We have been taught “I can know the future”. We have been taught “I can create my day”. I have been taught “I can manifest my own reality”. But what we forget is that we are not in the instant gratification society anymore, and who is willing to spend two hours a day doing something that initially is extremely boring and repetitive?
     Just like what most people do photographing orbs. They rush out during the commercial breaks in the soap operas and take five or ten pictures and then go back in to watch television and say it doesn’t work for me. I didn’t get anything remarkable. You can’t get the remarkable in five minutes a day.

MC: And that is one of the things you brought out in the book about that - that over time the orbs started showing up more and more.

MICEAL: It took me two years of photographing a hundred, two hundred pictures every night, and an hour or two more examining them before the torsion vortices began to appear. So it is like that. People come from the instant gratification society to our school, they expect that all the wonderful things that Ramtha teaches, which are true absolutely, they expect they are all going to come to them in an instant gratification manner, and they are not. It takes commitment. So I think we need to be realistic and know that what we are involved with is a Great W-O-R-K.

MC: Yes, greatly. It does. And yes, we have layers upon layers of lifetimes.

MICEAL: Layers and layers and layers of baggage, yes.

MC: This is where we think, again back to that plateau idea, that when we have found our way through a veil, that we are home free now and then all of a sudden you hit another one, and you go gee, I thought I was done. That is another illusion that we hold - that we were supposed to be done.

MICEAL: Some people say to me, “What’s all this work about? Why should I do FieldworkSM? Why should I live in a tent in Blue CollegeSM? Why should I whatever? We’re all Gods already.” Indeed we are all Gods but, you know, that Godhood has not been realized into the Hertzian plane and realize it or not, that is what we are discussing.
     No one is questioning whether we are Gods or not. What we are discussing is how do you do the miraculous, and you will not do that just because you are a God, but only if you can draw those abilities down from the higher planes into this one. That is what we are disussing and yes, we do have to work to accomplish that. So the whole work that we are involved with in RSE is not about raising our consciousness to the seventh plane but about bringing down the abilities of the six planes above us into this one. When we have done that, yes, then we are Gods realized– and with a capital ‘G.’.
     So I say to these people, “Do you accept that Jesus was God?” They say, “Yes.” I say, “Do you accept that I am God in the same sense as Jesus was?” They say, “Yes.” I say, “No, you are absolutely not right there, because the point is that Jesus had realized the six planes above into the Hertzian plane, and therefore, walking on this plane he was a God/man realized. But prior to his initiations and his passing of those tests he was not a God/man realized. And likewise, you and me, yes we are Gods, but we do not have the ability of Gods in the state in which we now are, so therefore we need this work to bring forth the divine.” It’s all about resolving the myriad of polarizations which have shattered our power, and is that a mammoth task!

MC: I am thinking of my son and of other children because they don’t have the conscious awareness of all the different layers. I know there have been times when a young person says, “Well, I’m a God, Mom, so why are you telling me that I have to do the disciplines?”

MICEAL: Because it’s not sufficient to just be a God to do the wonders on this plane. To do that you have to take steps to realize that Godhead into the physical. You need to be a “God-realized” to do the wonders here. You might be able to do wonders on the fourth or sixth planes if you have realized your Godhead into those planes, but you can’t do it here as you have not yet brought it into actuality on this plane.

MC: To be a God realized, that’s the point. I am curious about your experience with little ones because you have them in your life, of how they make that connection into the God realized idea

MICEAL: I am very fortunate that I have in my life three children of very good friends of mine whom I associate with on a regular basis. What I say to those children whenever they spend time at my house is that it is so crucial for them while they are still children, to study and practice these disciplines that give them enormous abilities, because when they get to, - I think JZ’s phrase for it is “the storm of puberty;” obviously the body has now gone into a different phase and it is going to be maybe thirty or forty years before they get out of that to a state of more physical tranquility again. Ram used to refer to it as “the Hour of the Soul” which happens three times in life’s course. It was something I used to refer to often when I was teaching at the School.
     That is why we often think that the end of life is a beautiful time for people to bring forth the divine, except that by that stage you probably have become very dependent. Maybe your daughter-in-law brings the children to see you in your retirement home or your assisted living facility once a week, and if you rock the boat and start talking about all this weird stuff, as they classify what it is we are doing, then you may lose those visits.
     The perfect time to find God is not to wait until the storms of puberty are over, and the trials and difficulties of raising a young family are over, and success in your business or economic world or whatever, and you are in old age when you are no longer in the game of being attractive to someone else, but you are now sort of left free from all the wiles and beguiling of the body and human society. No, that’s not the perfect time to find God, because you are most vulnerable of all at that time.
     The perfect time to find God is before puberty. That is why it is so crucial for us in the school that we try and encourage, and I mean you can only encourage the children. We know that children react against their parents and they react against them even in this school. We should be aware of that. So anything that you press too hard for, you are going to drive your children away from. That is a fact of physical incarnation. So it has to be done with discretion and wisdom.
     But I for instance, with two of the children that I referred to, suggested to them that they might do Henry Sugar cards here with me while we were having a little something to eat. I gave them ten cards each and asked them to go through them and to be really serious. One child got seven out of the ten perfectly correct and the other got six. With that sort of basis, can you imagine what those children could accomplish before they are ten or twelve years of age? They need never go back to the dramas that we went through.
                                                        To concluding our dramas!